Airlift design help please

Here you can find some good examples of Airlift powered ponds.

Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Sean9461 » Sat 06 May 2017, 10:09:08

If each airlift is only 110mm diameter I could have the airlifts side by side along the edge of the 4m I think?

In regards to your figures. I think you do have a typo

Your first results state you get the higher LPH at a shallower level. It should be more LPH at deeper leve?

So the length rising pipe for stat 1 and 2 should be flipped?

If i understand the way it works correctly
Results:

Pressure chamber Airlift:

Pump------Diameter rising pipe--------Length rising pipe--------Litres per hour-------consumption-------watt/m³
SLL20----------------110---------------------------170---------------------15.000----------------9 watt------------0,6 watt
SLL20----------------110---------------------------145---------------------20.000---------------12 watt------------0,6 watt
SLL30----------------110---------------------------170---------------------22.000---------------17 watt------------0,7 watt
SLL40----------------110---------------------------170---------------------24.000---------------32 watt------------1,3 watt


Zenkoi membrane disk Airlift (24cm) with 250
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Sean9461 » Sat 06 May 2017, 16:57:11

I assumed that the deeper the airlift the more flow but your saying for this 20,000 lph the depth is less?
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Pssymon » Sat 06 May 2017, 19:35:53

Yes, as I said. You can also see this in the videos.
It may seem strange but this is how it works for this configuration. The choice is between more or less output for the same efficiency. In many ponds 15000 lph is more than enough already.
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Sean9461 » Sat 06 May 2017, 20:23:37

So if I wanted to have 100 airlifts at 20,000 lph each I could have a pond At only 145cm depth?
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Pssymon » Sat 06 May 2017, 21:27:32

That is nearly correct. You would have to account for the fact that the Airlifts will need some space off the pond floor in order to have enough room to pump the desired yield. An Airlift resting on the pond floor naturally does not work as this means the inlet is clogged. I would leave at least 5 or 10cm below the pressure chamber to ensure enough flow. Also, make sure the Airlifts pump just below water level for the best result.

I'm thinking that perhaps you could use slightly shorter Airlifts as well, and make them return below the outlets of the row that returns just below water level.
Say you place a row of Airlifts all beside each other, at 145cm long, with 10cm of space at the bottom, returning 3cm below water level.
In this scenario your water depth would be 158cm.
Technically I think you could use a second row of shorter Airlifts, about 11cm (the diameter of the Airlift) shorter, so they can be placed right under the outlets of the first row.
The pressure chamber would be placed at the same depth. In theory this should give a similar result.

This is just a suggestion but it could be the solution if you don't have enough space.

I might as well calculate it:
You say you will have a 4 meter wide area where you could place the Airlifts. Each Airlift is 130mm wide at the base.
That means 400/13 = 30.77 so that length will only accommodate 30 Airlifts, if you use the configuration I mentioned you could fit 60.

Maybe you could use the same trick for another row, so you would get:
- Row 1: 30 Airlifts at 145cm long
- Row 2: 30 Airlifts at 134cm long
- Row 3: 30 Airlifts at 123cm long

This is just an idea. I don't think you can use this trick endlessly. If you would really want to use this configuration then I will discuss this with Marc first so he can share his knowledge as well.

Keep in mind that this is pretty much uncharted territory. Another factor that I am unsure about is how the Airlifts would perform being so close together. They could either reinforce each other, leading to more output, or they could limit each other, if there is not enough water per Airlift to draw from.
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Sean9461 » Sun 07 May 2017, 10:30:59

I could create a wider section at the beginning and end of the loop basically like an estuary where I have all the pumps in a line along the edge?

Would you be able to run some tests for me with new pumps to see if the flow drops when having two or more airlifts side by side?
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Pssymon » Mon 08 May 2017, 0:22:38

Sean9461 wrote:I could create a wider section at the beginning and end of the loop basically like an estuary where I have all the pumps in a line along the edge?

I was unsure what you meant exactly, but I take it you mean that you would use the Airlifts side by side as in my drawing, but make the section so wide that all Airlifts could fit next to each other?
That would mean 12 meters wide to house 90 Airlifts side by side. You could do that but again, I am unsure if this will be optimal as the width of the section would quickly decrease again.


Would you be able to run some tests for me with new pumps to see if the flow drops when having two or more airlifts side by side?

I would test it, sure. It would be good to know for our general understanding as well. The problem is that Marc has the ultrasonic testing device, lives over 300km away, and is very busy. I spoke to him recently and he plans to do all new testing (this test can be included) in the summer. As there is simply no time for him to do it now. In the near future I should be able to test here, which will make things a whole lot easier. But for now, we have to pool ideas and plan a date.
There is one more problem, which is the fact that the current test pond is only equipped to test one Airlift at a time. In order to test the performance of multiple Airlifts running on the same system at once, we will have to build a completely new system.


If you want us to actively support your project, run tests specifically for your purposes, and/or supply Airlifts or parts, feel free to contact me through a private message.
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby ptimi76 » Tue 23 May 2017, 14:00:07

Guten Tag! Hoffentlich verstehen Sie deutsch, weil ich kein englisch verstehe. Mein Deutsch ist auch nicht sehr gut.
Ich habe Interesse an Luftpumpe. Es sollte der Einzige Technik sein.
Ich möchte einen Naturteich(6x4meter, 1,5meter tief) bauen. Ohne Filter-Technik, ohne Wasserpumpe. 1/3teil (6x1meter) bepflanzt. Wenig Fische, kein Fütterung.
Ein parallel Filterteich(6x0,6meter, 0,9meter tief) sollte mit Kies gefüllt sein und völlig bepflanzt sein. Pflanzenwurzeln sollte das Wasser filtern.
Filterteich sollte 20-30centimeter höher sein, als grosse Teich.
Meine Frage ist, ist es möglich/könnte es funktionieren, ob das Saugrohr saugt das scmutziges Wasser direkt aus dem Teich, dann fliesst das Wasser dem Filterteich(6meter) entlang, dann am ende diesem Filterteich fliesst das sauberes Wasser zurück in den Teich?
Ich habe nur noch ein Teich-Plan.
Ich habe es gezeichnet, aber kann nicht hier hochladen.
Falls es funktioniert, welche Rohr-durchmesser sollte ich verwenden? Ich habe ein 20watt Luftpumpe gedacht.
Ich hoffe Sie können mir helfen :)
Schönen Tag wünsch ich Ihnen :)
Vielen Dank
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Pssymon » Tue 23 May 2017, 20:58:05

ptimi76 wrote:Guten Tag! Hoffentlich verstehen Sie deutsch, weil ich kein englisch verstehe. Mein Deutsch ist auch nicht sehr gut.
Ich habe Interesse an Luftpumpe. Es sollte der Einzige Technik sein.
Ich möchte einen Naturteich(6x4meter, 1,5meter tief) bauen. Ohne Filter-Technik, ohne Wasserpumpe. 1/3teil (6x1meter) bepflanzt. Wenig Fische, kein Fütterung.
Ein parallel Filterteich(6x0,6meter, 0,9meter tief) sollte mit Kies gefüllt sein und völlig bepflanzt sein. Pflanzenwurzeln sollte das Wasser filtern.
Filterteich sollte 20-30centimeter höher sein, als grosse Teich.
Meine Frage ist, ist es möglich/könnte es funktionieren, ob das Saugrohr saugt das scmutziges Wasser direkt aus dem Teich, dann fliesst das Wasser dem Filterteich(6meter) entlang, dann am ende diesem Filterteich fliesst das sauberes Wasser zurück in den Teich?
Ich habe nur noch ein Teich-Plan.
Ich habe es gezeichnet, aber kann nicht hier hochladen.
Falls es funktioniert, welche Rohr-durchmesser sollte ich verwenden? Ich habe ein 20watt Luftpumpe gedacht.
Ich hoffe Sie können mir helfen :)
Schönen Tag wünsch ich Ihnen :)
Vielen Dank


Guten Tag,

Deutsch ist kein Problem, Ihr Deutsch ist aber doch ziemlich gut!
Ich möchte Sie aber fragen ein neues Thema zu öffnen auf dieses subforum:

viewforum.php?f=119

Wenn Sie das machen können, dann werde ich Ihnen dort weiterhelfen weil für Ihre Fragen ein neues Thema besser ist.
Vielen dank im voraus.
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Pssymon » Sat 08 Jul 2017, 0:51:08

Hello Sean,

As we discussed via PM, this is the drawing Marc has made to roughly show his idea:

Image

The idea is to use two plates (preferably a type of plastic), roughly 150 x 100cm in size. These should have 110mm holes drilled in them, all next to each other. By putting all the Airlifts through, securing the lower plate near the pressure chambers, and the top plate near the top of the Airlifts, this becomes a sturdy single unit.

The Airlifts themselves should all be pressure chamber Airlifts, 140cm long for maximum flow and they should be free flowing at the top. The 90 degree bends are not needed and would not fit anyway.
The openings of the rising pipes should be 15cm below water level.
As you can see in the drawing, another plate is needed on the left side which is connected to the top and bottom plate. This plate ensures that the water cannot flow in the wrong direction when it leaves the Airlifts near the water level. On the right, another plate is connected to the top and bottom plate, closing up the right side. This setup ensures that water can only flow in one direction and cannot bypass the Airlifts in any way.

This system could be placed in a channel, 150cm wide and 2 meters deep for example.
As I mentioned before, Marc advises to use a 2000W blower in an application this large, preferably one with a frequency regulator.
This has to be a blower that can handle back pressure at 2 meters deep.


We should be able to test this in small scale I think. While the idea is solid, of course we don't have test figures of a setup this large.
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Re: Airlift design help please

Postby Pssymon » Sat 08 Jul 2017, 1:07:11

I made a quick drawing which shows the concept a bit more clearly:

Image
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